In this episode, we confront a truth many couples avoid: one partner will likely outlive the other. Statistically, especially in heterosexual relationships, it’s often the woman. That fact shapes the financial, emotional, and logistical choices couples need to make as they plan for retirement. We talk about why it’s essential to create a shared plan—one that not only protects assets, but gives peace of mind to both people involved.
We open by acknowledging that in many relationships, one person traditionally handles the finances. If that person passes first, the surviving partner can be left not only grieving, but scrambling to understand the financial puzzle. Amy shares how often she hears from women who feel anxious and uncertain when they’re suddenly in charge. These women aren’t incapable—they just haven’t been part of the process.
The heart of our conversation is about empowering both partners to be part of financial planning. Amy outlines the three big areas where questions tend to show up: understanding the financial picture, handling the emotional baggage around trust and confidence, and building knowledge to make informed decisions. It’s not about control—it’s about shared responsibility and kindness. We highlight how reframing conversations away from aging and death toward security and love can help bring both partners to the table more comfortably.
We also touch on how crucial it is for the financially involved partner—often men in older generations—to help build a bridge of understanding and trust. Amy uses the metaphor of setting up a tent: it takes both people holding up their corner to make the structure stand. We talk practical next steps, including setting up regular financial check-ins, building a “what-if” folder with key documents and passwords, and ensuring both partners feel respected and heard in these discussions.
Ultimately, we conclude that it’s never too late to get involved, and one of the most powerful legacies anyone can leave behind is a partner who feels confident to navigate life after loss. This isn’t just about money—it’s about care, connection, and preparing for a future that’s secure for both people in the relationship.
ThimbleberryU 136 - She Will Outlive You
Speakers: Jon Gay & Amy Walls
[Music Playing]
Jon Gay (00:07):
Welcome back to ThimbleberryU, I'm Jon Jag Gay, I'm joined by Amy Walls from Thimbleberry Financial. Hello, Amy.
Amy Walls (00:14):
Hi, Jag.
Jon Gay (00:15):
Okay, so a little behind the scenes here. Amy always sends me the title of the podcast before we sit down to record. And I'm a little spooked by the title of this one, which is She Will Outlive You: Taking Care of Your Spouse in Retirement Planning. I'm a little, as the kids would say, “shook.”
Amy Walls (00:32):
You're right, Jag. This is one of those (chuckles) topics that I imagine for both listeners and like you said, for you, that serves both our heads and our hearts. In many couples, especially heterosexual ones, the woman will statistically live longer. On average, it's about five years longer. What that means is that at some point, many women will find themselves solely responsible for managing their household finances.
Jon Gay (01:00):
And yet a lot of planning still happens with one partner, usually the one who's been more financially engaged, making most of the long-term decisions. Now, I got to pause here for a second because we've talked about this many times over the years in the podcast.
My wife Ellen is the financial brains of the operation, so if I go, she's going to be totally fine. But for a lot of couples, and I don't want to stereotype here, but there are a lot of couples where sometimes the male partner is running the finances, or we can even make it more generic and say the person who runs the finances may pass first regardless of gender.
Amy Walls (01:33):
Absolutely. And here's the challenge, if that partner passes first or becomes unable to manage things, the surviving spouse may be left trying to figure everything out in a moment of grief.
Jon Gay (01:44):
Yes.
Amy Walls (01:45):
I often hear from women and it's usually women who say, “I trusted my partner to handle it, but now I don't know where to begin.”
Jon Gay (01:54):
Absolutely. So, let's talk about this. Today, we're going to talk about how to prepare together and how to create a plan that works for both partners.
Amy Walls (02:01):
Jag, let's start with a simple truth (and you alluded to this), most couples will not pass away at the same time. One of you will outlive the other, and based on averages, as I mentioned, it's often the woman.
So, when we hear a spouse say, “I don't want to think about long-term care, or we don't need to plan that far ahead,” it may seem really harmless, but for the partner who will likely live longer and potentially knows those statistics and also potentially, will manage illness, bills or estate decisions alone, that dismissal creates serious anxiety.
Jon Gay (02:40):
I mean, on the surface that's about money, but it's really not just about money, it's about security and peace of mind and knowing you'll be okay.
Amy Walls (02:47):
Jag, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly it. I've had women say to me in quiet moments, usually, away from their spouse or partner, “I'm concerned that I'll outlive my spouse, but they've already decided without my input how we’ll spend in retirement and they don't want a long-term care plan. I do, and I want to know I'll be okay. But they shut the conversation down, what do I do?”
And honestly, those moments stick with me. Just as I was sharing that I have faces like going through my head that have said those words to me in some form or fashion.
Jon Gay (03:24):
(Laughs) Alright. So, what do women, again, I don't want to stereotype here, but we're just going by the numbers. What do women tend to ask you when they start to think about stepping more into the financial side of things?
Amy Walls (03:34):
Gosh, Jag, that's a big question. A lot of questions come up, but they usually fall into three main areas. I'll start with the first one, which is just understanding their financial picture. And luckily, because we do work with couples together, if we've worked together for a little while, they usually know the answers to these.
But the first is what do we have? I don't know what our assets are. Follow that with how are we invested, and what happens to me if my partner isn't here to manage things?
Jon Gay (04:03):
Those are the big picture items, yeah.
Amy Walls (04:04):
Next, we get emotional questions. And I wouldn't say someone has directly asked this, but it's the questions behind the questions that we work hard to listen for: “Will I seem ungrateful or like I don't trust them if I ask for what I want or for what's going on or for the decision-making?”
Jon Gay (04:22):
I see the fear behind that. Isn't the number one cause of divorce arguments over money?
Amy Walls (04:25):
Mm-hmm.
Jon Gay (04:26)
Yeah.
Amy Walls (04:27):
Second emotional question is a big one too: “What if I can't understand all of this?” Especially women of a certain age were not brought up to learn about money, and many of the stories they've been fed throughout their lives is they're not capable of knowing or learning this, and they should be leaving it to someone else.
Jon Gay (04:51):
That's scary but true.
Amy Walls (04:54):
And the third category is about building confidence: Can I really learn this now? Because obviously, I'm going to share, yes, they can.
Jon Gay (05:03):
Yeah (chuckles).
Amy Walls (05:04):
Because I believe they can. And what if I mess something up? And the women that I've had these kinds of conversations with, they're incredibly smart and capable. They're just stepping into a space they really haven't been invited into before.
Jon Gay (05:19):
That is a really great point. I'd imagine that space feels like it already “belongs” to someone else.
Amy Walls (05:25):
Exactly. It doesn't have to be that way. This space can be shared and it should be shared.
Jon Gay (05:31):
So, let's talk about that emotional wall. And we talk about behavioral finance a lot on this podcast and the psychology behind all things money. There's that wall, that emotional wall that goes up and one partner wants to prepare for things like long-term care, tricky subject, but the other says, “Ah, we're fine. We'll figure it out. Don't worry about that stuff, we'll just kick the can down the road.”
Amy Walls (05:51):
Yeah, Jag, this is where a lot of couples get stuck. Often, one partner wants a really clear plan and the other doesn't want to talk about aging, decline, or death. Here's the reality – pretending it won't happen isn't a plan, it's avoidance. And for the partner who's likely to outlive the other, that avoidance feels like being left behind.
Jon Gay (06:14):
That's true, yeah.
Amy Walls (06:15):
Being dismissed. So, what I might often suggest in this situation is approach this from a different lens. Instead of saying, “We need to talk about dying,” maybe approach it from, “I want to talk about living and making sure we both have what we need if one of us needs more care or support.”
Jon Gay (06:34):
Yeah. When you frame it that way, it's not so much about fear, it's actually more about love.
Amy Walls (06:38):
And it's also not accusing, which fits with it's about love.
Jon Gay (06:43):
That's like a universal truth of broaching difficult subjects is you say, me instead of you. Instead of, It's you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.,” it's, “I'm feeling this. I'm hoping that we can work through this.” If you put that onus almost back on yourself, that's a lot softer of an ask.
Amy Walls (06:59):
Absolutely.
Jon Gay (07:01):
Alright. What about the spouse who's always handled things? This is kind of the other side of it. The one who says, “I've got it covered.”
Amy Walls (07:06):
Well, I think first of all, we have to accept that they may genuinely feel they're protecting their partner. They don't want to burden them with complexity. But here's the thing, when you're the only one who knows how the puzzle fits together and something happens to you, your partner is left with both grief and confusion.
Jon Gay (07:27):
That is a lot to carry.
Amy Walls (07:28):
And it's why I use this metaphor with couples; planning together is like setting up a tent, each of you holds a corner of the structure. It doesn't matter if one person is stronger or has done it before, if one lets go, the whole thing collapses unless the other knows how to keep it up.
Jon Gay (07:45):
Ooh, I like that visual.
Amy Walls (07:47):
And the strongest couples I know, they build that tent together.
Jon Gay (07:51):
There you go. Alright, so let's get practical. What are a few steps couples can take now if they want to share the load of that big, large, heavy tent?
Amy Walls (08:00):
Here's where to start. Schedule a financial check-in, maybe our listeners don't have a financial advisor and maybe they don't want one. I think regular monthly coffee meetings away from the house to walk through, review accounts, contacts and where key documents are is really important.
Jon Gay (08:19):
Especially that last part. You’ve got to know where everything is, how to access physical documents as well as online passwords.
Amy Walls (08:26):
Yep. And if you have an advisor, do it with your advisor. And if you have an advisor as a couple, but that relationship is only with one of you, make sure you're both comfortable with that advisor or find a new advisor.
Jon Gay (08:40):
Absolutely.
Amy Walls (08:41):
I'm going to speak here to, I'll say our male counterparts, but usually, if we're talking heterosexual couples and often for our older listeners, it would be the man stereotypically that would be handling these things – you should know that statistically, your wife will leave the advisor when you pass.
And that is because they do not have a relationship and they don't trust that person. So, find someone now that they trust and are comfortable with so that they don't have even more on their plate when you pass.
Jon Gay (09:16):
Okay, I like that.
Amy Walls (09:18):
Next thing I'd say is make a “what if” folder. That what if folder should include logins, although I do prefer that is done online via password vault, advisor info, healthcare directives, that type of thing. Split your roles intentionally, where maybe one person pays the bills and the other tracks investment, and don't leave each other in the dark, have a system to fill each other in on the status.
Jon Gay (09:42):
For sure.
Amy Walls (09:43):
And what I'd share there is it's not what you think is important for them to know (make sure you share that), but also ask them what they want to know and make sure you're providing that.
Jon Gay (09:55):
All comes down to communication and talk about it before it's urgent.
Amy Walls (09:59):
Absolutely. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, and the second-best time is now.
Jon Gay (10:03):
Old Chinese proverb, I've heard that a few times (laughs). This has actually been a really powerful conversation, Amy, and given me a lot of things to think about and our listeners too, I'm sure. Any final thoughts as we wrap up?
Amy Walls (10:15):
If you're listening and thinking I'm not involved enough or I don't know where to start, first know you're not alone. And secondly, know that it's not too late.
Wanting a plan doesn't mean you're trying to take control, it means you care about your future and your partner, and it's one of the kindest things you can do for each other. If you've been the person who's been taking the financial lead, one of the greatest legacies you can leave is a partner that feels confident and capable of moving forward without you.
Jon Gay (10:45):
That is a mic drop moment for you. That's where we end the podcast right now because that is so true. Amy, if our listeners want to get in contact with you and your team at Thimbleberry Financial to talk about their future, how do they best reach you?
Amy Walls (10:58):
They can reach us by giving us a call at (503)-610-6510 or by finding us online at thimbleberryfinancial.com.
[Music Playing]
Jon Gay (11:08):
And if they're a married couple, have both of you go to that appointment. Take care, Amy, we'll talk again soon.
Amy Walls (11:13):
Sounds great, Jag. Thanks.
Voiceover (11:15):
Securities offered through registered representatives of Cambridge Investment Research, Inc., a broker dealer, member of FINRA/SIPC, advisory services through Cambridge Investment Research Advisors, Inc., a registered investment advisor. Cambridge and Thimbleberry Financial are not affiliated.
Discussions in this show should not be construed as specific recommendations or investment advice. Always consult with your investment professional before making important investment decisions.
Securities offered through registered representatives of Cambridge Investment Research, Inc., a broker dealer, member of FINRA/SIPC, advisory services through Cambridge Investment Research Advisors, Inc., a registered investment advisor. Cambridge and Thimbleberry Financial are not affiliated.